Posts by Julia Orwell

11

Return of the Sparlock

by Gojira_101 in

jw
friends

so my hubby and i are having some more family drama (details coming to you soon), but this lovely picture is what my hubby drew after the drama with the family.

i'm sorry the picture didn't turn out that well, but i think you will get the gist of it.

he called this therapy!.

Julia Orwell

That's freaking hilarious Gojira! But I don't understand the girl scout cookies? I know what they are but we don't have them in Australia, so I don't know whether they're considered wrong or ok?

3

"Angel of light" revisited

by leaving_quietly in

we're familiar with 2 cor 11:14: "and no wonder, for satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light.".

this scripture came up in a talk today.

now that i'm in the habit of looking at surrounding verses for context, my first question was: "what was paul saying "no wonder" to?".

thanks for that! I had the Inquisition arrive at my house yesterday and spout how the GB are the true ones doing the true work of God, and boy they made a convincing case for the unitiated or unreflective! But seeing your post there has strengthened my faith in Jesus, and shown me what a crock the GB are.

55

Anyone noticed a curiosity on the Memorial Invitation for 2013 ?

by EdenOne in

i can't scan the memorial invitation for 2013, but i was looking at it today and noticed something curious on the front drawing.. we have jesus as the central figure of the composition.

to his right and bottom, a large crown, in colour, of shiny happy people of diverse origins.. separated from this by the figure of jesus, is another group, a much smaller one, on the left and as if ascending to the top, and grayed.. clearly portrayed in this group is the face of ct russell and apparently william tyndale.

but then, also sarah and abraham and other personalities of the ot seem to be represented there.

Julia Orwell

Hey I wouldn't have made it this far without my happy pills!!

138

A question about lying and the Jehovah's Witnesses

by Change Name in

i have seen questions regarding how much jehovah's witnesses lie all the time on yahoo answers.

here is the latest question:.

jehovah's witnesses, is lying at any time something jehovah approves of?.

Julia Orwell

Hey Change-Name,

There are times when JWs do not have to tell the truth, like in Rwanda when the people wanted to kill the Witnesses who were being hidden. Apparently as a JW you do not have to give the truth if the person demanding from you is not entitled to it.

I'm an active JW and this is what I've been taught.

As for everything else, yes, we must always be truthful. As for theocratic warfare, you will find it on the Watchtower library CD. You will find it by typing it into it, and most of the references come from the 1950s. It must have been a term used a lot then.

Use Theocratic War Strategy- Watchtower 5/1 1957.

Hope this helps.

81

Julia's Inquisition - Two elders, the full version! I want you all to see this.

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

sorry it's gonna be long winded.

i've done my best to reconstruct from memory.

my husband was next to me the whole time.

Julia Orwell

Yeah I did tell hubby that if I'm dfd or da he will be forbidden to talk spiritual things with me and it would make our relationship awkward. We've only been married two years. It took me 30 years to find him and 40 for him to find me. I'm not letting that go.

He said when he could see I was distraught, "What can I do to help you?" and I spoke about my doubts. He's a caring man, respects me. My worry is that he's going to have his head filled with so much stuff about how Satan misleads us and is misleading me and how he'll have to stay strong in 'the truth' as a good example to me...

It would be easier to recant, but Ray Franz didn't do that, Martin Luther didn't do that, and Jesus didn't do that.

43

an elder will be at my house in one hour HELP!

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

we've missed some meetings due to work and thinking it's bs and also one night my husband got drunk n fessed up n had a shepherding call n now the e is coming to see 'how we're doing'.

help me please i dunno what to do..

Julia Orwell

Thanks lois!!

I've been depressed all day, but coming here has made me feel better. They know I've got PTSD, CFS, major depression and major anxiety, so if I get a few days' notice I might just go off my meds and be a shaking, incoherent mess when they arrive. Let my husband see THAT!

81

Julia's Inquisition - Two elders, the full version! I want you all to see this.

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

sorry it's gonna be long winded.

i've done my best to reconstruct from memory.

my husband was next to me the whole time.

Julia Orwell

D'oh! The spaces didn't show up. But you'll understand the issues.

81

Julia's Inquisition - Two elders, the full version! I want you all to see this.

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

sorry it's gonna be long winded.

i've done my best to reconstruct from memory.

my husband was next to me the whole time.

Julia Orwell

Sorry it's gonna be long winded. I've done my best to reconstruct from memory. My husband was next to me the whole time. Gaps in the script represent where I cannot remember what led into the next topic or to break it up visually.

This is taken from my email to Gojira:

Fast forward to now. I've put some scriptures and WT quotes on my facebook page for discussion, been dobbed in to the elders, and they arrived yesterday on the pretext of helping my husband because of that time he got drunk. My group overseer brought the preppy young elder from Melbourne, who'd come to serve our cong because 'the need was great', in other words, get us back into shape. Melbourne exports a lot of these types to the Gold Coast.

I can't tell you the order, but I'll abridge some of what was said: G.Overseer: [lists about 7 things which are central to JW beliefs and trots out Matt 24:45] these things are what identifies us as JWs. If you no longer believe all of these things Sheree, then technically you are not a JW. What percentage of JW beliefs would you say you believe? Me: I don't know because I haven't sat down and totted them up. GO: Well, roughly. 10%? 20%? 50%? 90? Me: I do not wish to answer that. GO: Do you believe Jesus's prophecy at Matt 24:45? Me: Jesus created a contrast between two slaves, a good one and an evil one. Elders: [trundle out the proof that that the GB were chosen because of good motive etc] Me: Mormons come to my door who are every bit as sincere as the GB or anyone else for that matter. Both: [digress into all the reasons the Mormons don't have the truth] Me: I did not say they do. I just used them as an example. GO: so who else apart from us doesn't believe the trinity? Me: The Christadelphians, Russellites, Mormons, Unitarians... GO: Who else does preaching work? Me: The Mormons, Pentacostals, SDA, evangelicals... GO: But not door to door like we do. Me: In the 21st century there are so many effective ways of getting the message out, with technology- Preppy: [cuts me off] We're not talking about the 21st century! [then ensues a cat-and-mouse game of questions and answers about the preaching of 20 centuries ago] GO: Who else uses Jehovah's name? Me: The Christadelphians GO: So what makes the Christadelphians different to us? Me: They don't believe in Satan. GO: Then who do they say tempted Jesus [see here an attempt to blindside me/enter secondary arguments} Me: I would have to ask my Christadelphian auntie to get the answer to that, or the guy across the road. And on in went about how JWs are true, trotting out the usual evidence. Preppy: Do you believe Jesus has an appointed FDS? Me: I do not know. Preppy: If Jesus isn't using the GB, who then is he using? Me: I do not know Preppy: [outlines all the reasons the GB are Jesus' reps] Do you believe the GB is being used by Jesus? Me: I will not answer that. Preppy: You keep saying, "I do not know," which means you have doubts. [then proceeds to delve into what caused doubts] Me: [explains how I've had some time off from work and I decided to research the org's history and also different translations of the Bible and Greek texts] Preppy: Is that all you've been reading? Me: Yes [I wasn't gonna open the 'apostate website' can of worms]. Preppy:Do you believe there is a 'truth'? Me: Yes, I believe it is right here [put my hand on the Bible]. GO: Do you believe the Governing Body are Jesus's FDS? Me: I choose not to answer that. GO: Why do you choose not to answer? Me: I do not wish to incriminate myself. I told them at that point that I did not feel free to express doubts about the GB because of page 71 in the Shepherd the Flock book, which constitutes apostacy and I did not wish to have that label, which led to this: GO: Do you feel you have a right to read that? Me: Under Australian law, anyone in Australia has the right to access any legislation. I'd like to think God's organisation is holier and purer than the Australian government. GO: But do you think it's your right to that information? Me: I believe there should be transparency, and besides, there's nothing damaging in that book. Then preppy asked, What would happen at a university if you challenged the curriculum? Me: A university would welcome that. [he made a big mistake because I know these systems very well and gave him such a run-around because he has no clue about educational systems in Australia or anywhere] Preppy: Ok then, say you're working for an organisation, and they tell you to work 9-5. What would happen if you said you wanted to work 10-6 instead? Me: We would negotiate over it. Preppy: [frustrated] but if you were working at a bank... Me: I've never worked at a bank. The people I've worked for have always been negotiable. Preppy: [tells me banks don't negotiate and if I didn't work the set hours I'd be replaced] Me: are you saying Jehovah's gonna replace me? Preppy: [getting agitated and raising his voice] No that's not what we're saying at all! Take TAFE [technical education]. If you go to TAFE and don't believe what the curriculum says is true, would you pass? Me: [another huge mistake! I worked 5.5 years there] If you satisfied the competency, yes. Tafe is competency based. If you performed the task competently you would pass irrespective of whether or not you believed it. GO: [trots Korah's rebellion out with leading questions] Me: Korah went through the Red Sea, saw the pillar of fire and cloud, and had direct evidence that Jehovah was directing Moses. GO: [Spins Korah some more] Preppy [catches on and talks about the horrible deaths those people died] Me: Can I cite a more modern example? [cited Paul and how he dealt with doubters, and proceeded to ask if they are comparing me to Korah.] GO: No but...Korah thought he knew better. Me: I do not claim to know better. I have doubts. [and you know the rest of the Korah thing] Preppy: [asks when I got baptised. Was nearly 13 years ago]. What's changed in 13 years? Me: I got baptised at 19, and in 13 years I've had a hell of a time with all sorts of things, I've matured, I've travelled, I read, and I've had a lot more life experience. Preppy: What did you believe about the GB when you were 19? Me: Well to be honest I didn't think about them much at all. Were you raised in the truth? Preppy: Yes, all my family are in the truth. Me: Well mine aren't. I was raised an atheist, and by learning JW beliefs I was flying in the face of my parents, and I was having a horrible time. I was a teenager trying to make my way, and I said a lot of things to my parents that I would not have said if I knew then what I know now. You have no idea of the pressure I was under, and all I wanted to do was serve Jesus and Jehovah, and they gave me a shocking time. [my husband chimes in at this point] Sheree's parents are pretty full-on. I could see that the first time I met them. Me: And they mellowed a lot before you met them too. Back then, I was their little girl, whereas now they respect me as an adult, but back then they gave me hell, so the Governing Body was the last thing on my mind when I made my dedication. Preppy: So what makes you doubt it now? Me: Reality. GO: When you got baptised you answered the questions, so you knew what you were getting into. Preppy: Did you know at the time what you were getting into? Me: In some ways. I came from an atheist background and had now come to believe in God and Jesus, and that was what was important to me, but I can't say I really knew much about the Governing Body or how everything works. Preppy: Do you feel then that because you didn't know fully what you were getting involved with, your baptism should be considered void? Me: I wouldn't say that. Preppy: Then what has changed in 13 years? Me: In 13 years I did not have much time to think. For the first 5 years I was up against my parents, and you know that persecution always makes a belief stronger. And the last 6 years I've been through hell and been diagnosed with PTSD, major depression, anxiety, chronic fatigue sydrome and cognitive dissonance. I've been so busy trying to keep on top of work, the house, in and out of doctors and psychiatrists offices, while going to all the meetings and all that. I've had no time to think for literally years! And when I lost my job last year, for the first time in years I've been able to rest! I've been able to sit down, and think about my life, and get in touch with myself! That's why I began my Bible study project: because for the first time, I had the time. I've been able to explore my spirituality properly, probably for the first time. [and on in that vein] Preppy: [emphatically] So if you don't then believe all we teach, why do you still bother to come along? Why do you still wish to be identified as one of Jehovah's Witnesses? Why would you still invest in something you don't believe? Me: The reason I still wish to be identified as one of Jehovah's Witnesses is because I have so much invested. I have 15 years worth of friends, and my own husband. I love my husband dearly, and I know that if I were to disassociate I could lose him. I would lose all my friends as no JW would be allowed to speak to me. You ask me why I should invest? Because I have so much to lose. [note now that neither Preppy nor GO disagreed with me on this point or side track as they did on every other one I made]. They sort of summed up by suggesting I'm allowing my emotions to sway me into believing what I want to believe, and I told them I've been beseeching God in prayer and studying just like they said to. Preppy told me I might not like the answers I receive to my prayers. I did not tell him that I'm getting answers to my prayers, but they are ones he would not like. We spoke about other things throughout but I believe I've included most of the relevant stuff.

43

an elder will be at my house in one hour HELP!

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

we've missed some meetings due to work and thinking it's bs and also one night my husband got drunk n fessed up n had a shepherding call n now the e is coming to see 'how we're doing'.

help me please i dunno what to do..

Julia Orwell

Hey guys,

Thanks for all your support! I must credit this site and certain people who've emailed me with much of the defence I made, mostly regarding foreknowledge of the things I knew would incriminate me.

The preppy young born-in pioneer elder serving where the need is great in our cong used analogies to do with challenging university curriculum and not believing the content of a Technical Institute course. BIG mistake! I was 5 years at university, and worked 5 and a half years in a huge technical institute, and am into my third year of secondary teaching. I KNOW these sectors, especially technical education, inside and out, and he revealed his ignorance and should not have chosen that line of reasoning with me, who works in education! He got very shirty. Well, that's what you get when a window washer comes head-to-head with an educated professional.

As for my husband, when the elder asked me why, if I don't believe a lot of the JW doctrine, do I even bother to go to the meetings and still be called a JW? Why don't I just disassociate myself? And I told him that I love my husband to bits, and if I DA, I will be shunned by 15 years worth of people in my life, and could lose my husband.

He didn't disagree. He didn't say anything. I'd pulled organisational procedure on them.

After they left, I started to shake and be traumatised, crying to my husband that they're going to shun me, and he will partake of my disgrace and become an object of pity in the congregation because he'll be known as 'the brother with the apostate wife', and he'll lose his privileges. He's not been in as long as me, so I told him the full extent of what might happen to both of us. He loves me and the hurt I suffered caused him great pain, so he'll see the door before long.

Thanks for your help all!

43

an elder will be at my house in one hour HELP!

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

we've missed some meetings due to work and thinking it's bs and also one night my husband got drunk n fessed up n had a shepherding call n now the e is coming to see 'how we're doing'.

help me please i dunno what to do..

Julia Orwell

It was mid morning in Australia. Tested my husband this morning to see how he was going but he brought another bro, totally disregarded my husband and they launched straight into me about my 'doubts'. They kept trying to get me to say whether or not I believed in the gb being Jesus's reps or the channel thru which matt 24:45 is fulfilled and I would not commit an answer, saying, I do not know like Data from Star Trek and, I choose not to answer that. It was v sneaky of them to line this meeting up with my husband on the assumption it was about his problem then go for me. He was shocked n felt bad for me.

there's heaps more and I felt I defended myself well. They implied that I was having emotional problems- I have a plethora of depression etc as it is, and that I was becoming likeKorah. Of course I questioned them directly bout that asking if my having doubts was to be equated korah and his hunger for power etc.

One of them nearly lost it at me at one stage. I knew where his interrogation was heading but I was one step ahead most of the time.

More on this later as supporting my husband at the meeting soon. Smile and wave.